Independent Filmmaker's Guide

Episode #7

August 14, 2020


Returning to Film School In Covid

What does Film School look like this coming school year and beyond? What do drama and other performance art school programs look like? Joining the discussion today is Meri Weingarten, the Director of Digital Media and Technology at the University of Southern California; Charles Haine, the Acting Program Director for Feirstein Graduate School of Cinema at Brooklyn College; and Paul Steger, Dean at the Leigh Gerdine School of Fine Arts at Webster University in St. Louis.

Watch the video version of this episode:

Full Interview

Steven Pierce:          Now we’ve been through a lot this year and I guess just starting off now, where are we now as far as what your institutions plan to do? Meri, what are your initial thoughts for what you’re going to attempt this fall?

Meri Weingarten:     Okay, well, we’ve been through a variety of iterations as I’m sure others have as well, but we’ll start classes in four weeks and I would say we’re in a hybrid mode, but we are doing quite a bit of remote teaching and remote production. So depending on the level, a student might be shooting on their iPhone with filmic pro, if they’re at a more advanced level they may pick up gear if they’re local to LA and do something there. We’re also doing more previews rather than production, but the focus really in terms of production is on safety. And really if they’re in a production environment with the crew, they are learning exactly what is being done in Hollywood because we’re using those guidelines.

Steven Pierce:          You mean the safety guidelines currently from Hollywood?

Meri Weingarten:     Correct. We are basically taking their guidelines and we’ve made them into ours. And because we do use SAG actors, so if you are doing a production with SAG actors, you have to follow SAG guidelines or they won’t work for you.

Steven Pierce:          Absolutely. And that completely makes sense. Charles, what’s going on at Feirstein?

Charles Haine:          So we’re in a similar boat to USC but one of the things that we’ve been navigating is the exact limit of, what are we going to allow in terms of hybrid production? So a lot of our classes will be online but we do recognize that it’s important to allow some people to get together in groups and to shoot. So we’re implementing, already every production has to meet with our safety officer before they go out and review their production. And now we’re adding some steps to that process. So we’re allowing shoots of up to five people in the beginning of the semester and that includes talent, but we’re also saying that you have to evaluate with us, we need to know how big your location is, which is something never used to ask before, but if you want to stuff five people in 400 square feet, that actually there’s not enough room in that little studio apartment for us to give permission for that. So we’re asking for a lot more thorough pre-production than we’ve necessarily asked for in the past. Although that’s a good thing, that’s a good skill filmmakers should get in the habit of, even for the world after COVID when things are back to normal in 2025, pre-production never hurts you. So we’re doing a lot more evaluation in pre-production of potential shoots before they go out and then we’re really trying to navigate our facility so that it’s the safest facility possible. So we’re scheduling equipment pickups, it used to be, you pick up on Monday, but now someone will have the Monday 10 o’clock time, someone else will have the Monday 11 o’clock time and you have to go at your time so you don’t overlap with other people and increase the number of contacts you’re interacting with. I actually there’s another film school but a friend is going to be doing… Rutgers is going to be doing all of their equipment pickups outside which I found really like, we can’t do that, but I was impressed to hear that. I thought that was a great setup.

Steven Pierce:          Yeah, that’s an interesting take because so far it seems being outdoors is generally safer, but how does that work for… Paul, with all the different programs you’re running, how does that work for instance, are you doing anything with outdoors stuff or what’s your general protocols?

Paul Steger:              It’s interesting that you ask, we have a really great relationship with Opera Theater Saint Louis and with a Repertory Theater Saint Louis, both are housed here on campus with us. So we are actually doing a tent structure outside that we can hold some of our conservatory classes as well as some of our music classes. It’s a rather large tent, but we’re looking at ensemble performances for music being done on the roof of the parking garage or in the parking garage. So we’re doing orchestra rehearsals and performances in that way. We’ve rearranged all of our seasoned selection process for the conservatory. So now the productions that we’re dealing with now all have streamable rights, which normally doesn’t necessarily happen. We’re looking at rehearsals for those being a smaller casts in larger spaces, everybody’s working in masks, we’re looking at streaming options for that because we have limitations on how many people can come and we’re changing up what we do normally in the art end of things for our exhibition spaces and turning those into student workspaces where we can socially distance people with 10, 15, 18 feet. Now all the new things are coming out so we’re working with Hollywood, film production guidelines, stagecraft guidelines, the actor’s equity guidelines, the SAG guidelines, the after guide… And one of which of course, they’re talking to each other, so they all have independent requirements and needs and so you’re trying to thread this needle that’s in the haystack while there’s a tornado going on. So it’s a little crazy but – all the protocols are in place where we’re doing the same kinds of things. You’re scheduling when students are coming into practice rooms and having disinfectant wipes and alcohol wipes available to wipe down instruments and wipe down door handles. They wipe them down when they come in, they wipe them down when they leave, we leave enough 15, 20 minutes in between each one of those scheduled things. It’s just we’re scheduling things in a much more robust way now.

Meri Weingarten:     Yeah.

Steven Pierce:          So you were able to secure streaming rights for the broadcast of the plays or the musicals you’re doing?

Paul Steger:              Right. Yeah. So two of them will do live while the rep is not producing this fall, we’ll use their main stage theater, we’ll spread the people out and nobody will be in the booth so we’ll put them spread out throughout the audience for stage managers and sound people and lighting people so we can keep them socially distanced. And then the last production of our fall will be completely directed and performed as a remote Zoom option. So we’ll put that all together and then stream it.

Steven Pierce:          Interesting. I’d love to talk more about that in a second, but I think touching on that Meri you also said you’re doing remote productions as part of your training. How is that going to, I mean, how does that work? Are they going to be advised remotely? Or are they going to be dealing with talent remotely or are you talking about a small local crew working together and then remotely reviewing in classes?

Meri Weingarten:     I think there’s a little bit of everything there, but I think for some of the beginning classes especially on the undergraduate level where we really feel the students need to be contained as much as possible where they don’t have the experience and possibly the judgment to go into a bigger crew setting, they’re creating these production bubbles and where I think some of them are going to be allowed to be with each other if they’re in the same city, but in a lot of places on the remote side, they’re doing everything remote. So an actor will work through his or her own iPhone and files will be transmitted and people will then work remotely doing the post-production. So that’s at the beginning level, I think what is going on at the beginning and intermediate. I think the only shows that are really going into what you would look at as more of a Hollywood type of crew setting are going to be the advanced productions. And we are doing a lot outside. We are requiring COVID monitors on all the sets which is now the industry protocol. 

Steven Pierce:          It’s like health and safety officers?

Meri Weingarten:     That’s right. So we have to hire somebody for that, but that is only limited to anything that really involves a crew or a location and really the advanced projects.

Steven Pierce:          I mean, in mentioning the locations, that’s something you mentioned a second ago, Charles, that seems like a lot more work because essentially you’re not going to be able to do as many big productions, so theoretically you might have to do more smaller productions, right? And so is that the plan to just… I think that was really smart to evaluate what they’re going to be shooting and how they’re going to be shooting it, but is that going to be sustainable? Are you guys worried about the workload of that?

Charles Haine:          I mean, every shoot that goes out at our school gets evaluated by the safety officer regardless. So I don’t know that, that’s going to increase workload. I mean, the evaluations will probably take longer because of COVID restrictions. I think the bigger thing is just the learning process of helping students come to understand what is possible in this world. I mean, we’re really lucky, two of our faculty members are actually on shoots right now. One is shooting something in Spain in August and the other is being a feature that shooting in August in New York, so we’ll have a lot of people coming back to set with first world, I mean, firsthand experiences of here’s exactly how we had to adapt the story we wanted to sell to the protocols that exist today. And here’s how we pulled off something that we still feel proud of and that doesn’t feel limited and doesn’t feel like we just recorded a Zoom call, we still told a story. And so we’re really focusing on that training for students of, how can they still do something that’s expressive that doesn’t feel so bound up, but that obeys all of the safety protocols. I mean, monitoring this stuff does get tricky. I mean, one thing we have is, we always have intimacy guidelines and we bring in an intimacy coordinator. And one of the things in our guidelines is if you’re having an intimate scene, you need to prove that the couple already lives together. You can cast people who already live together to kiss each other in your movie, so now we’re in a situation where it’s, are we going to ask for utility bills to prove that these people cohabitate? It’s this complicated new world we’re in where previously you could have just cast two actors and if they were willing to hug each other in the scene, it was fine, now it’s well, we need proof that they are within each other’s pod already if we’re going to let them get that close to each other in a scene. Because otherwise we’re really encouraging people to keep the social-distancing even on set in front of camera.

Steven Pierce:          Yeah, absolutely. That’s an interesting tape.

Meri Weingarten:     Yeah. I just wanted to jump on what Charles said about getting back to basics in terms of story. And I think that even in March when we all had to go home, we had to remind ourselves and remind the students that really telling the story is the essence of what they’re learning in our school, learning how to tell a story effectively. And that it’s not about the gear, it’s not about the technology, it’s about the story. And I think the more that we can get back to those basics, I think there’s a lot any student can learn even in this difficult environment.

Steven Pierce:          So how do you approach something like, this is a total different monster, so say like dance or music, Paul how are you going to be able to do feedback and what’s the plan for those kinds of things? Because that really is based around real time feedback. Like I play a sequence, you could take my fingering to make me a better piano player.

Paul Steger:              Yeah. We’re doing some of those things in our class piano where you have a digital piano. It’s much more difficult with an acoustic instrument now, but with a digital piano you can hook that into a mini controller and it becomes a real time clean version, there’s no latency at all with it transmitting to the individual. So an individual then can sing. The challenge is when you’re doing face to face. So some of our voice lessons for example, will be remote and then some of our recitals which there will be very few of them just to graduate. The people that are graduating are doing recitals in a space and that space must require, based upon the National Association of Teachers Singing and College National Band Directors Association, they all have guidelines as well. So right now the way they’re looking at it for National Association Teachers of Singing is that you have to have at least 16 feet between any singer and their accompanist, if you’re going to have them in the same room and then 16 feet between that singer and your teacher but they should be masked as much as possible, it’s mostly just because of the amount of aerosols that are coming out of the person’s mouth and the droplets that are being disseminated around in the space. So you can only do that for a short period of time. Nobody knows exactly how long that period of time is, but we’re looking at air exchange rates, how often does the air turn around in each one of the rooms, in each one of the buildings, how does the air traffic pattern flow? I mean, there are a lot of complications that all flow into that. But in dance, we’re looking at people going to have to dance with a mask on, but there we end up with 12 foot social distance circles. So that as individuals are moving in the room, they have room to collapse that social distance and still be safe. So in some of our spaces where it’s a dance class for one chunk of time and then it’s an acting class for another chunk of time, those distances shift and change. So then it’s also all the protocols and wiping down every prop and separating all of those things, but literally organizing it in a scheduled fashion and doing hybrid because some students don’t want to come to campus. Some students want to learn remotely and some faculty have some dispensations to be more adept or more susceptible to contracting the virus. So they want to work remotely. So you’ve got teachers that want to work remotely with some students being on campus and some students being remote. So it’s truly a hybrid right now of some things we’re recording things, we’re making those available, we’re also planning on doing some things live and being able to stream those things. So literally it’s like synchronous, asynchronous, hybrid is the easiest way in which to describe it.

Steven Pierce:          So and you’re bringing up a really good question there, sorry, Mari there’s something you said a minute ago, I wanted to go back to was about how it’s all about going back to the story, right? About all going back to these are creative arts degrees, right? What I remember the most from going to art school wasn’t the gear, wasn’t the stage, it wasn’t the technical things, it was always the way I thought about the story, the way I approached it, that’s what I ended up taking away. And we’re focusing really on a lot of the issues, a lot of the technical issues that we’re dealing with. Are there any opportunities that you all have found or that your faculty have found so far approaching this that you think actually could be an advantage just because of the sheer nature of having to rebuild the structure of a classroom?

Meri Weingarten:     Yeah, I’ll take a little bit of that. I mean, I think just off the top of my head, the biggest advantage is being forced to simplify because when you get caught up in the technology, you tend to make things more complicated. You have a DP pushing for a certain type of camera or a certain type of shot or variety of shots so when you’re forced to simplify, you have to get back down to basics which really is the most important thing anyway. So I think if that could be carried through to when we’re back to normal, that would be a plus.

Charles Haine:          I totally agree. I think there’s especially as you get to advanced projects, there’s this desire and I’m going to admit, I fell into it. When I was in grad school, I directed my thesis film and I wanted to shoot 35 and we got out a crane and we shot on multiple different formats and I had all of these things that looking back, I’m like, I’m not sure how much they helped with the storytelling. And then later in my career, I’ve done feature films where it was like, I’m just going to talk about the story and I don’t need to shoot a dozen different formats. I don’t need to prove anything to anyone, I’m just going to tell a story with pictures. I think my feature film had a smaller crew than my thesis film. And I mean-

Steven Pierce:          That’s great.

Charles Haine:          And I think that’s pretty common because you want to play with everything and right now for better or for worse as a year where we’re not… Our faculty member I was just talking to him about his production in Spain and it’s a total of, I think even in Spain, which just handled it relatively well and is relatively back to normal, it’s 20 people on set, I think it was 20, which is not normal for his size TV show productions, usually it’s a much bigger crew and he’s like, “I’m back to learning how you tell these stories within these limitations.” And I think like there’s going to be a lot of people who realize the power of a very simple… With the tools I have available, what are the stories that I can tell and I think that that’s going to be a really interesting restriction in the year. To be honest, I think it’s too early, I mean, for me and hopefully other people to summarize really what those are. I feel like in a year I’ll be able to say like, “Here’s what we’ve learned about what works within our current protocol, here’s the top five things to think about as you’re doing a thing,” but it’s going to be really interesting year of shepherding all these projects through and seeing the things that work in this space.

Steven Pierce:          Yeah. It’s that a classic I can do this-

Charles Haine:          Yeah.

Steven Pierce:          … but should you do this? Absolutely. Paul, anything that you’ve come across with your faculty as you’ve been discussing this?

Paul Steger:              Yeah. It’s interesting. For me, it reminds me of that transition between shooting on film and shooting digital where there was a push pull between this like, oh my gosh, we’re losing this beauty of being able to cut and tape put things together but also the opportunities that have arisen, for example, the dancers last spring, as we’re all referring to it as once we pivoted in March, the dancers decided that what they would do for an end of year concert was take one large piece of choreography and have every one of the dance majors do that choreography and then clip splice pieces of it together. So some people are doing a piece of the choreography in their living room, some are doing it on the roof of their house, some are doing it in our backyard, some of them are doing it in a park, so that you’d see this transition of all of this choreography as being that story that literally runs through the whole thing but each student interpreting that story in their own way but then and as a conglomerate being a Zoom edited piece, it has a different life and a different everyone’s connected to the story, but everybody is the same. It’s like going to see Blue Man Group you or something where the characters, you don’t really notice that they’re distinct and different because they’re blue and they just look different but as the show goes on and you start to see that those characters come out, you can distinguish the individuality in each one of them. So I don’t know what that means right now or what it will mean in the future, but that’s just an observation of where we are.

Steven Pierce:          Right. So we’re hearing a lot from obviously advocacy groups, politicians, other people putting a lot of pressure and agendas on what is happening. What is the vibe of the students? Have you all been in contact with any of your returning students or maybe even your new students that are coming in, what is their overall impression of what they think is coming up and what their anticipation is for the fall?

Meri Weingarten:     Well, I think that there is disappointment on the part of the students and we’re dealing with that. Our hope is that our students will learn a lot from this experience that the focus is not on what they’re not getting but on what they are getting. But I think it’s hard for the students, it’s an adjustment and certainly. But I think that if students can focus on what they can get out of it during this time, I think there’s a lot there. So it’s really a shifting of a mentality and a little bit of going with the flow of what this is the world we live in. But I think it is a challenge for the students to embrace that.

Steven Pierce:          Yeah, absolutely. I think you probably nailed it on the head. I’m curious, Charles, you have all the graduate students at a Feirstein. So has there been any impression or what’s the vibe of them being a little older, a little farther along? How are they feeling about returning and coming back?

Charles Haine:          Well, so interestingly, I mean, I think Meri said it really well when she pointed out that I think the students are disappointed. And it’s interesting because I think traditionally we think of graduate school. It’s not necessarily like many people go to a med school or law school at night or business school or whatever and it’s not the community that dictates your life, but film school is very much an intense community experience even for graduate students. And one of the things that we really promote frequently, I mean, it’s baked into many of our syllabus even if real work happens in person.  We think this assignment requires this much in person meeting because one thing we’ve noticed over the last couple of years is many of our grad students were late twenties default to doing things over the internet and there’s things like making a lookbook where we think a director and DP should meet in person to do a look book. I don’t think you can just do that over email. And so I think a lot of our students are feeling, even our graduate students are feeling a little bit of disconnection from their community. We do weekly town halls or we did during the school year and a lot of students who didn’t even have any questions or anything said that they were just coming because they wanted to see everybody’s faces and feel connected to the community and the community of an arts environment is a really valuable thing when you’re supporting each other and competing in a friendly way with each other and helping each other grow. We are trying to figure out the best ways we can enable some of that to continue this year however we can because we do think that’s really important. We do know we can no longer assign things like you should meet in person for an hour for this project, but we can think strategically about how we can help people find ways to make it a meaningful, collaborative exchange, even though it happens remotely. I think our students are pretty resilient. I think film students in general are used to, I mean, we’ve all had a day exterior planned and then we woke up to rain. I mean, I guess not new LA but the rest of us have woken up to rain when we were planning a day exterior and I think film students are used to pivoting, this is probably a bigger pivot than any of them were used to, but I think that they are pretty resilient and patient and eager. They’re also more politically engaged than they’ve ever been before. And we are very actively addressing and engaging with them about how that’s going to play out over the next school year.

Steven Pierce:          And Paul as I said that the same thing you all are experiencing across all of your departments?

Paul Steger:              Yeah. I think there’s a deep sense of disappointment especially for those students that are returning who have already been a part of that community, have already have close friends that I thought back in March, what it would have been like for me as a college student to have to leave school in that community and a job and not be able to pay my rent and have to go back and live with my parents being a completely different human being than what I was when I left. For the freshmen coming in… For both the students and the parents, we’ve been doing these Webster Wednesdays through the Dean of students office where the parents and the students can ask a lot of questions about what housing is going to look like and what our new plans are going to look like and what safety protocols are in place. And so it’s been good to have those Zoom sessions with them because they can ask a lot of questions and we can tell them the answers that we currently have, but the intimate details of how are you going to work while you are doing a collaborative sculpture in art or how are you going to work with the choral group is going to be different than what it’s going to be or has been for them in the past. So it’s a challenge in the arts, I completely agree with what Meri and Charles said, that the arts have that part of what we do is they are emotionally and intellectually and personally invested in what it is they’re doing. And so anything that gets in the way of that is a conflict that stops them from being able to express themselves and find voice. And when they know that they have a channel of people that can help them focus their voice and now we’re going to take that away from them or shift how close they can be or make them work in a different way, it’s just unnerving, it’s unsettling. But I think it will inevitably be, as my sister once told me about trying to protect my daughter from jumping off of things because she likes to jump off of things that are taller than she is tall. She said, “There’s going to be a time when she’s going to hurt herself and she’s probably going to learn more from hurting herself or working through that challenge than you stopping her from ever taking the risk.” So there’s some of that. Obviously we don’t want them to risk so much that their health and safety is in question. But we do want to give them the opportunity to take a risk.

Steven Pierce:          Absolutely. So if you had any students that were maybe not even like your universities, but somewhere that was an arts program and they were questioning whether they wanted to return or whether this is the right choice for them right now, do you have anything that any of you would say in response to that, either in the positive or the negative?

Meri Weingarten:     Okay, I’ll go. I would say absolutely go for it. Come back or start your education wherever you are in the process because what else are you going to do? And you might as well have a creative voice during this incredibly difficult time and either document it or write about it or use your creative voice to express how you feel about it. I really hope that students do come back because I think that there’s a lot to gain. And like Charles said, I mean this whole idea of resourcefulness in filmmaking in particular or in any creative venture, you got to learn to pivot on the dime all the time. Now this is a bigger pivot as Charles said, but still there’s a lot to be learned. So I think, what else are you going to do at home if you don’t go to school?

Charles Haine:          Yeah. I mean, it’s weird because in general I’m a big fan of gap years, I took off time before I went to graduate school and I think I got more out of grad school because of it. I mean, in general, a big fan of that, this would be a weird year for a gap year because it’s not like you can- 

Meri Weingarten:     You can’t go anywhere.

Steven Pierce:          The gap is you try to expand your world, expand your mind you’re experiencing come back and bring more to it.

Charles Haine:          Yeah. I also think in particular, one of the arguments for going back right now is that a lot of what this online learning space is going to look like, obviously I think all of our film schools want to be back in person as soon as we can. I think a lot of our industry, especially the post-production part of our industry is going to stay online into the future. So the sooner you dive in with getting good with Frame.io, getting good with remote edit sessions, getting good with sync sketch and getting good with all those great tools that give you really robust remote collaboration, the sooner you get boots on the ground with that and you have those skills, the more robust your career is going to be when you get out and there’s no better time than right now to get really good at being a remote collaborator. I think in five years, TV shows we’ll be back having a hundred people crews. I’m confident production will still have that… But honestly like in the commercial world, we might see that you got a 50 person commercial shoot but now the client doesn’t come anymore and the client stays in Detroit and you have to collaborate with them remotely and keep them involved. And the sooner you get used to the idea of, this magic thing… I did a movie a couple years ago in the National Radio Quiet Zone in West Virginia where there’s no cell phones and it was great, it was like the nineties, everyone was there, everyone was present, a dude read the newspaper because that’s what you do when there’s no cell service. It was wonderful, I loved it. But that’s the exception. Those of us who got to work in the nineties before cell phones, that’s not the world anymore. And the sooner you get better at, okay, I have to manage this production and outside stakeholders who might not be here, I think the better. I understand anyone who wants to take the time, I respect anyone who wants to take the time, I totally respect especially if you’re gearing up for a thesis shoot, the year already written in cast that doesn’t fit in COVID, if you want to wait on that I respect it, I understand that. But I do think there’s an opportunity to embrace what’s going on right now that’s great. Also, if you’re an undergrad, I would say, if you go now, you’re going to have more of your faculty’s attention, more resources available to you because you’re going to be a small year and as you go through the program you’re always going to have more of that attention and then you’re going to graduate and they’re going to be fewer graduates. Whereas if you wait a year, next year is going to be a bumper crop so you’re going to be fighting for attention and then four years later, a whole bunch of you are all going to graduate and compete for the same jobs at once. Grad school is different, if you’re an undergrad, you should just go right now in my opinion.

Meri Weingarten:     I just want to tag onto that because I think I’ve been in a lot of industry Zooms over the last few months and the industry is pivoting. So we are really entering a new world. Even when COVID ends and maybe production… You don’t have to wear masks or stand six feet apart from each other, there’s going to be a change in production, there is definitely going to be a change in post-production without question. I think the industry is really shifting so students are learning the shifting industry which is really important. And also what we’ve tried to tell our students too is that, yeah more resources, so there’s a lot of people in the industry now that are not working as much. So they’re giving back to their alma maters. So we have a ton of people giving back at USC. We have access to people that normally you can’t get onto their schedules for like two years. So I think students do have access in a way that they didn’t have before and won’t have again. So there’s a lot of ways to look at this. So yeah, just wanted to add on what Charles has said-

Steven Pierce:          That’s a fantastic point. I mean, jumping on what you said too Charles, I mean, yes, post-production definitely is going to change. I’ve already experienced some of that myself and I think that that is… I’ve had a lot of conversations with my colleagues in post-production and TV and I don’t think it’s going to go back anytime soon. I think in fact, they’ve learned that they can do these remotely and save more money. Also in our commercial work, I legitimately think we’ve been pitching to all of our clients. I was like, “This is going to save you a ton of money because now you don’t have to travel to the commercial set. Now I can bring it to you. That means we don’t have to put up screens and video village, we don’t to get you a room, put the space up for you, you don’t have to travel in, you don’t have to pay for the per diem, the food and not to mention the lost time for travel.” It’s a huge Opportunity that came out just out of this terrible time that is obviously going to be very trying, but I’m super excited about that because that makes my job easier, I can do it cheaper and ultimately it’s going to be less headache for everyone.

Paul Steger:              Yeah. And the other thing that right now… I agree all the way around, come back and be a part of a smaller cohort or the other things that are happening right now in our world are tectonic shifts. I mean, we’re looking at climate change is something that we can all engage with. What’s happening in our administration, our government administration, there’s a lot of people that are engaged in that now and there’s racial justice issues that are everywhere. So if there was ever a time to take a gap year and rethink what your voice is or how you want to use your artistic skills or how you want to use the technology that you have, boy, now’s a great time to rethink that and find a way to channel that. The other thing is that, for all of the technology and resources available for video chats and engagement and all those other things, there are a lot of limitations there and because there are so many creative people available in so many other disciplines as well in computer science and engineering, these platforms are going to shift and they’re going to change and they’re going to change because people were tired of the limitations of them, they’re going to take more advantage of the opportunities that were good about it and I really think become leaders for the next, 20, 30, 40, 50 years in ways that I can’t imagine. So we might not all be here that at that time to see the impact that they make but it goes, it’s generational, I mean, it’s down to kids that are three, four, five years old, because their world is different now as well. So they’re going to see their world in a different way and hopefully it’ll be a better place because of this craziness.



IFG is created by Framework Productions. This episode was directed by James Allerdyce, produced by Matt Mundy, edited by Audrey Rae McHale, and hosted by Steven Pierce. The music is by Glass Boy. Find his music on freemusicarchive.org.